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getvalentined:

Differentiating the “Black Robes”

For folks who didn’t catch it on their own playthrough or (or watch-through) of FF7 Rebirth, here’s a quick breakdown of the apparent nature of the people in black robes seen throughout both this game, and previously in Remake.

This differs from OG canon, where everyone in a black robe was a Sephiroth Copy, but in the FF7R timeline they appear to be broken into three “types.”

SPOILERS BELOW — READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

NO NUMBER TATTOO means this is a G-type SOLDIER suffering from degradation. These people are terminally ill. Degradation sets in within five years of enhancement [see Note 1 below], and accelerates very quickly without aggressive treatment.

image

Known G-type SOLDIERs: Roche, Azul, Rosso, and Shelke Rui.
Population: over 100.

A ONE- OR TWO-DIGIT NUMBER TATTOO indicates S-type SOLDIERs in the throes of Reunion. These people are not terminally ill, based on dev comments confirming that S-type SOLDIERs don’t degrade, but they have a cellular leash that is being constantly yanked on by Sephiroth/Jenova. Without Reunion taking place, most of them would presumably live long, fairly healthy lives. [See Note 2 below.]

image

Known S-type SOLDIERs: Zack Fair, Kunsel, Luxiere, and Broden.
Population: presumed fewer than 100.

A TATTOO STARTING WITH “SC” confirms these people are successful Sephiroth Copies. Failures do not receive a tattoo. They may or may not be terminally ill, contingent upon which type of SOLDIER they were prior to the procedure to make them into a Copy, and the leash on their own cellular makeup is much stricter, much more direct, and gives them a clearer concept of where to go and what to do.

image

Known Sephiroth Copies: Roche (successful), Zack Fair (declared failure), and Cloud Strife (declared failure).
Population: 4 subjects in total, plus 2 known failures.

Tattoos don’t seem to be applied at the time of enhancement, since none of the SOLDIERs in Crisis Core have them, but it’s possible that early inductees like Broden were marked when they survived the treatments; this seems likely, as Broden’s tattoo is in a slightly different typeface than the tattoos of others in his “type.”

I didn’t include Sephiroth, Genesis or Angeal under known members of their given types, as they were never normal humans and were not enhanced using one method or the other as teens or young adults. Those who are Jenova babies from birth don’t count. I also didn’t include two members of DeepGround due to the fact that they canonically cannot actually be G-type SOLDIERs based on the lore of how the two of them were made and how they function in general; they may be G-type on paper, but they are not G-type for the purposes of this analysis.

Lastly, I’ll admit that this breakdown may appear to be slightly inconsistent during gameplay, but this seems to be due only to the reuse of models between black robed individuals, presumably to take stress off the dev team. I’m fine with this, obviously, no crunch is good crunch. As far as I can tell it’s pretty consistent in full cutscenes, though, so I’m sticking with it until the third game proves me wrong.

NOTE 1: The timeframe for degradation is based on Roche suffering from the condition prior to his becoming a Sephiroth Copy, which is visible in the fact that he has a handful of incongruously pale streaks through his hair prior to the procedure; an attempt to cure this is presumably the reason he volunteered to work with Hojo in the first place.

According to the Remake Ultimania, Roche joined SOLDIER after the Nibelheim Incident, so he’s only been in the program for five years at the most; this timeframe also allows us to recognize S-type SOLDIERs, as they’ve been in the program for significantly longer with no known ill effects (e.g.: Kunsel has been in the program since at least 2000, but is mentioned by name and indicated to be at headquarters in Remake, showing that he’s still on active duty in 0007; this wouldn’t be the case if he were suffering from degradation, so he can’t be a G-type.)

NOTE 2: The capacity of S-type SOLDIERs to live fairly normal lives with minimal major health issues is proven by the existence of Broden, who identifies himself as a SOLDIER but was certainly part of Project 0; he and Mildred left home as teenagers and wound up with Shinra, but Mildred doesn’t know the name of the project into which he was conscripted, only that it was “top secret.”

Combined with the apparent age of both characters in-game, this indicates that Broden took part in the project before SOLDIER was even SOLDIER, putting him as one of its earliest successful operatives, probably enhanced sometime between 1983 and 1985 based on the timeline provided in the First SOLDIER Battle Royale opening cutscene—hence why his number is the lowest shown on a person in a black robe in the entire game. This puts him in his forties at the youngest during the Crisis, and he functions just fine (albeit with some other issues we can assume were caused by the enhancement procedure being imperfect at the time of his enlistment) until Reunion starts to call him toward the end of 0007.

getvalentined:

I forgot to share the Tseeve crumbs from Rebirth, a handful of seconds that had my jaw on the floor.

Tseng’s casual body language? His playful little comment? The smirk? The way the secretary immediately vacates the premises when she realizes it’s Tseng? HELLO?

Someone who comes off less harsh than me needs to please tell the Ts*ngRu shippers to stop using that scene of Tseng smirking at Reeve for posts about their ship. Not including the corresponding shots of Reeve in gifsets and imagesets featuring this scene does not transform it into canon support for Ts*ngRu. It is completely unrelated to that ship. R*fus is not there. Tseng is not looking at him, or talking to him, or reacting to him, because he is not there.

I understand that Rebirth didn’t give y'all very much food (although it gave more than the entirety of the OG, where Tseng and R*fus never actually appear in the same frame at any point tmk), but that doesn’t mean you should take scenes that are completely unrelated and imply or even outright state that they’re canonically about your ship.

It’s even more egregious when the scene in question is actually like the first crumb that a smaller, much less popular pairing (which has been around just as long, thanks) has gotten since BC ended. But Tseng can’t exist without R*fus, I guess, and any emotion he ever shows has to be related to R*fus, and any time he seems to be enjoying himself for any reasons has to be directed at R*fus, etc etc etc. Fucking wild behavior.

Differentiating the “Black Robes”

For folks who didn’t catch it on their own playthrough or (or watch-through) of FF7 Rebirth, here’s a quick breakdown of the apparent nature of the people in black robes seen throughout both this game, and previously in Remake.

This differs from OG canon, where everyone in a black robe was a Sephiroth Copy, but in the FF7R timeline they appear to be broken into three “types.”

SPOILERS BELOW — READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

NO NUMBER TATTOO means this is a G-type SOLDIER suffering from degradation. These people are terminally ill. Degradation sets in within five years of enhancement [see Note 1 below], and accelerates very quickly without aggressive treatment.

image

Known G-type SOLDIERs: Roche, Azul, Rosso, and Shelke Rui.
Population: over 100.

A ONE- OR TWO-DIGIT NUMBER TATTOO indicates S-type SOLDIERs in the throes of Reunion. These people are not terminally ill, based on dev comments confirming that S-type SOLDIERs don’t degrade, but they have a cellular leash that is being constantly yanked on by Sephiroth/Jenova. Without Reunion taking place, most of them would presumably live long, fairly healthy lives. [See Note 2 below.]

image

Known S-type SOLDIERs: Zack Fair, Kunsel, Luxiere, and Broden.
Population: presumed fewer than 100.

A TATTOO STARTING WITH “SC” confirms these people are successful Sephiroth Copies. Failures do not receive a tattoo. They may or may not be terminally ill, contingent upon which type of SOLDIER they were prior to the procedure to make them into a Copy, and the leash on their own cellular makeup is much stricter, much more direct, and gives them a clearer concept of where to go and what to do.

image

Known Sephiroth Copies: Roche (successful), Zack Fair (declared failure), and Cloud Strife (declared failure).
Population: 4 subjects in total, plus 2 known failures.

Tattoos don’t seem to be applied at the time of enhancement, since none of the SOLDIERs in Crisis Core have them, but it’s possible that early inductees like Broden were marked when they survived the treatments; this seems likely, as Broden’s tattoo is in a slightly different typeface than the tattoos of others in his “type.”

I didn’t include Sephiroth, Genesis or Angeal under known members of their given types, as they were never normal humans and were not enhanced using one method or the other as teens or young adults. Those who are Jenova babies from birth don’t count. I also didn’t include two members of DeepGround due to the fact that they canonically cannot actually be G-type SOLDIERs based on the lore of how the two of them were made and how they function in general; they may be G-type on paper, but they are not G-type for the purposes of this analysis.

Lastly, I’ll admit that this breakdown may appear to be slightly inconsistent during gameplay, but this seems to be due only to the reuse of models between black robed individuals, presumably to take stress off the dev team. I’m fine with this, obviously, no crunch is good crunch. As far as I can tell it’s pretty consistent in full cutscenes, though, so I’m sticking with it until the third game proves me wrong.

NOTE 1: The timeframe for degradation is based on Roche suffering from the condition prior to his becoming a Sephiroth Copy, which is visible in the fact that he has a handful of incongruously pale streaks through his hair prior to the procedure; an attempt to cure this is presumably the reason he volunteered to work with Hojo in the first place.

According to the Remake Ultimania, Roche joined SOLDIER after the Nibelheim Incident, so he’s only been in the program for five years at the most; this timeframe also allows us to recognize S-type SOLDIERs, as they’ve been in the program for significantly longer with no known ill effects (e.g.: Kunsel has been in the program since at least 2000, but is mentioned by name and indicated to be at headquarters in Remake, showing that he’s still on active duty in 0007; this wouldn’t be the case if he were suffering from degradation, so he can’t be a G-type.)

NOTE 2: The capacity of S-type SOLDIERs to live fairly normal lives with minimal major health issues is proven by the existence of Broden, who identifies himself as a SOLDIER but was certainly part of Project 0; he and Mildred left home as teenagers and wound up with Shinra, but Mildred doesn’t know the name of the project into which he was conscripted, only that it was “top secret.”

Combined with the apparent age of both characters in-game, this indicates that Broden took part in the project before SOLDIER was even SOLDIER, putting him as one of its earliest successful operatives, probably enhanced sometime between 1983 and 1985 based on the timeline provided in the First SOLDIER Battle Royale opening cutscene—hence why his number is the lowest shown on a person in a black robe in the entire game. This puts him in his forties at the youngest during the Crisis, and he functions just fine (albeit with some other issues we can assume were caused by the enhancement procedure being imperfect at the time of his enlistment) until Reunion starts to call him toward the end of 0007.

I love when folks ask me Fandom Old questions and I get to be like “Yeah, uh, that’s from my old online RP group, no it’s not canon at all, yes we just made it up, no we did not claim it was canon but the mid to late aughts were a strange time.”

It’s honestly a shock to realize how often this has happened. I mentioned earlier that Reno’s fanon surname came from this same group, but that’s not even the half of it. I once made a bunch of screenshot manips based on the most ridiculous ships anyone could think of—someone slapped a random line of text onto one of them and to this day it’s used as a “cringe FF7 fandom” meme. I saw it on the twits a bit back and almost fell out of my goddamn chair.

If you’ve ever heard Scarlet referred to with the surname “West,” read about Tseng fighting with metal fans, seen Elena’s older sister being called Anna instead of Emma, come across Vincent portrayed as having a PhD in spite of being a Turk, or caught references somewhere to Grimoire experimenting on Vincent as a child, that started with this group. That was us.

One of the funniest examples of this, for me specifically, is that we don’t actually know which arm Veld is missing? The fandom generally goes with his left because that’s how I drew him in the first picture of the guy ever posted on devart way back in 2005, but it may very well be his right. I’ve seen people offer “proof” that it’s his right based on a scene in the opening cutscene, but you can’t tell there either, and with BC’s graphics there’s literally no way to tell on his sprite.

Hell, this year we found out everyone’s assumed timeline of the Kalm fire is wrong, and that’s our fault too because we made some assumptions about Felicia’s age for an LJ RP that were entirely wrong. She’s around Zack’s age, not Sephiroth’s! She’s old enough to run with a terrorist group in BC, but she was a child when Kalm burned, and that happened in 1997—we know this because NPCs in Rebirth literally refer to the fire in Kalm having happened “just ten years ago.” Veld has only had his prosthetic for three years when BC starts. (This also implies that, contrary to popular belief, Veld may actually be younger than Vincent. Vincent may have been the senior partner, and that’s why he was sent to Nibelheim alone while Veld was left at headquarters.)

We were really wrong on this! But we were working with what we had. There’s no canon evidence for the vast majority of these things (the most notable exclusion here is Vincent being educated) but we weren’t claiming there was. We were filling gaps, and canon was so sparse that we had a lot of gaps to fill. So if it turns out that Veld lost his right arm, then I’ll just have to start drawing him that way—because losing his left was never canon.

Tragically, there’s nothing any of us can do to make people stop assuming these things are canon at this point; there aren’t a lot of us still in the fandom, and it’s not like any of us have those old chatlogs anymore. People from this RP group have DIED since those days. It’s been over 20 years since most of us met, and around 15 since most of us were in a public fannish space together.

“Prove it,” people say, and I literally can’t. Do you know how many computers I’ve been through since then? 75% of the platforms we used no longer exist. This all started on a BBCode forum! There is no proof!

But…there’s no evidence any of these things are canon, either, so maybe think about that? The Kalm fire, Tseng’s weapon of choice, Veld’s arm, character surnames—none of these are retcons because there was no lore there to retcon. We made it up for our specific purposes, and it escaped containment in an era when there was really no way to do online contact tracing.

It’s just one of the weirdest feelings in the world to see younger folk arguing about A or B point in canon, about X or Y retcon—referencing something my friends and I thought up at like 10 o'clock at night on a now-defunct IM client in August of 2005, because we needed something to refer back to for a specific scene in an RP and the source material had nothing to offer.

Absolutely fucking bonkers.

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